Hutch's Admin Abuse on CS Server - 11th April 2008

On Friday evening, Chazlene, VoX, myself, and around six other people not in the community were playing on our fun CSS server, on glass_war 05. Hutch then came on, and sat in spectator for several minutes, without any contact towards us, and not coming onto TeamSpeak to speak to us either.

During a round in which the only two people left alive were myself and a random player, with a stalemate at the bottom of the map, since my last remaining teammate was killed as I arrived at the bottom. About 20 to 30 seconds after the killing, I was edging round the corner to try to shoot the enemy player, but before I could attempt to do this, I noticed that Chazlene and VoX had been kicked by Hutch in quick succession, which was followed by myself soon after.

Whether to avoid a possible ban from VoX, Chazlene or myself (all admins on the server) or the fact that his 'aim' of disruption had been achieved, Hutch then disconnected from the server, and was not seen for the rest of the evening.

This is a message I sent to Chalex a few hours after the incident, via the forums PM system.

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I didn't want to create a thread since I know it would become one massive bitchfest, but earlier this evening on the fun server Hutch decided to come on, kick Chazlene, VoX and myself and just leave again.

This was unprovoked in anyway,and this event will be testified for by Chazlene and VoX. I am sure the server logs will also confirm this occurred.

I request that you take actions to prevent this from happening again, and maybe impose a harsher sanction, since this is his second major offence in the last three months.

Thank you for reading this PM, I hope to have a response and action in the next few days.

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Tonight on TeamSpeak, Chalex has refused to act on the issue, by responding negatively (or not at all in some cases) to my questions, on whether something will be done on the issue, and to what severity that action will manifest, due to it being the second display of abuse in three months towards the community by Hutch, as well as causing disruption on one of our game servers with non-community members present, and presenting a negative impression upon the players present on the server and the community. It obviously had a negative effect on the image of the community and the server, since most of the random people began to leave the server in quick succession, not long after the event, and we did not see many people rejoin before we decided to log off Counter-Strike.

One thing I learned from an educational course I attended on that day at Kings College, London was that if one person has a bad experience with a product, company, event etc. (can be applied to our servers and TeamSpeak), then they will likely be put off from using the specific product again, and will likely tell their friends about the bad experience, who in turn will tell their friends, and soon it becomes rapidly expanding knowledge that people believe that the product isn't something to be used, due to the negatives associated with it.

This applies to the community because of the bad image that this event and others (such as the previous abuses, the resulting thread, and some other threads that have resulting in members presenting themselves as 5-year old spastics that slap each other at the sight of the other so much as breathing) has given the community, and prevents us from expanding in terms of the lack of new members coming into the community, as well as putting off visiting members, or possibly even core community members from coming on to the servers, participating in community events and posting on the forum. It may also prevent members from providing their friends, acquaintances and internet contacts with the community addresses, due to the reputation that we have attained.

Due to Chalex's lack of response and apparent lack of interest on TeamSpeak this evening on this issue, I have decided to post this up on the forum, in order for the community to discuss the issue in full and possibly talk about resolutions to this problem. The main aim with this thread, however, is to gain the full attention, interest and participation of Chalex in this discussion, in order to make sure that this issue is dealt with efficiently and effectively, so that the right decisions can be made, in order to satisfy the desires and needs of the community as an entity, and the entities within the community.

[Apologies for the long post, if there are any errors, point them out]

that took the whole of 4 minutes to read that, im sure chalex can find spare him in his "busy" schedule :P

Sorry, but this was a huge essay, and chalex talked to me about it today as did bloo.....

Go do something else with your time... Blowing it all out of proportion.. also heard you on TS tell everyone to GO GO GO, read the post... seems like you wanted to stir shit up a bit. This isnt a portrayal of all the facts either.

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Originally Posted by Hutch

Sorry, but this was a huge essay, and chalex talked to me about it today as did bloo.....

Go do something else with your time... Blowing it all out of proportion.. also heard you on TS tell everyone to GO GO GO, read the post... seems like you wanted to stir shit up a bit. This isnt a portrayal of all the facts either.

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still i am with oric on this one, i didn't read it all :P (well none of it because am to tied)

so DILLIGAF

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Originally Posted by Hutch

Sorry, but this was a huge essay

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Worth a read

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Originally Posted by Hutch

also heard you on TS tell everyone to GO GO GO

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He always says that, believe it or not

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Originally Posted by silentlord.2008

still i am with oric on this one, i didn't read it all :P (well none of it because am to tied)

so DILLIGAF

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So you are with someone without reviewing or reading anything at all?
I believe this is stage 3 oric. Very minor incident... don't worry about it..

1. I was not in spectator, I was in a team and had played 1 round
2. Oric isn't a good witness as the whole incident took place in *DEAD* chat
3. I said "Oric can't win this he's pinned" to which VoX and Chazlene said MARGGH and then muted me for no apparent reason and told me to shut up 3 times, even though it was just a typed message.
4. There were about 6 people on the server 4 of them being ATK members.

As for the reason why our community isnt growing? It's because not enough members are on to actually fill the servers to persuade people to join.

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One thing I learned from an educational course I attended on that day at Kings College, London was that if one person has a bad experience with a product, company, event etc. (can be applied to our servers and TeamSpeak), then they will likely be put off from using the specific product again, and will likely tell their friends about the bad experience, who in turn will tell their friends, and soon it becomes rapidly expanding knowledge that people believe that the product isn't something to be used, due to the negatives associated with it.

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HOW THE FUCK IS THAT RELEVANT???? It doesn't make you look intelligent at all. We aren't trying to sell red letter days or sausages or something.

3 months, have you been counting that much because your soul only bleeds spite and hate, this all seems carefully orchestrated, not as a service to the community but a way of spiting me for several thousand reasons, and also to help you feel a little more powerful as you have no responsibilities in life. I've barely been on TS this holiday, yet you still decide to carry on your crusade... dude move on.

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Originally Posted by Hutch

So you are with someone without reviewing or reading anything at all?
I believe this is stage 3 oric. Very minor incident... don't worry about it..

1. I was not in spectator, I was in a team and had played 1 round
2. Oric isn't a good witness as the whole incident took place in *DEAD* chat
3. I said "Oric can't win this he's pinned" to which VoX and Chazlene said MARGGH and then muted me for no apparent reason and told me to shut up 3 times, even though it was just a typed message.
4. There were about 6 people on the server 4 of them being ATK members.

As for the reason why our community isnt growing? It's because not enough members are on to actually fill the servers to persuade people to join.




HOW THE FUCK IS THAT RELEVANT???? It doesn't make you look intelligent at all. We aren't trying to sell red letter days or sausages or something.

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Hutch, it don't make you intelligent to make a long reply back, and i have read the post now and i am still with oric, also the reason for the servers not filling up is becasue they are shit and need to be updated.

and for the "i was in a team" thing (i know i was not on the server at the time but ) i thing oric is right and ur wrong and don't post back for me to Fuck off out the community because u know your wrong , oric has been helpfully to me since i join the community (thats around 2 years now) and you have done FUCK all (well you have helped a bit).

so i will end again with DILLIGAF

Silent, although I appreciate your support, I would like it if you made it less personal, and more about the actual offence.

(8) Bitchy bitchy bitchy......... (8)

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Originally Posted by silentlord.2008

Hutch, it don't make you intelligent to make a long reply back, and i have read the post now and i am still with oric, also the reason for the servers not filling up is becasue they are shit and need to be updated.

and for the "i was in a team" thing (i know i was not on the server at the time but ) i thing oric is right and ur wrong and don't post back for me to Fuck off out the community because u know your wrong , oric has been helpfully to me since i join the community (thats around 2 years now) and you have done FUCK all (well you have helped a bit).

so i will end again with DILLIGAF

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Its intelligent to write using CAPITAL LETTERS for things that aren't just swear words. Also your opening sentence made no sense.... the Art of War isn't a short book, yet its known as one of the most intelligent books in the world. Why would I ask you "To fuck off out of the community", that would be blowing all this out of proportion, oh wait, Oric has already done that for me.

"oric has been helpfully to me since i join the community" Generally any kind of judgement based on extreme bias can generally be binned. Basically you just voided your opinion, and I just voided my bowels reading this crap.

Hutch please shut up alrite, don't start bitching at me ok keep on topic if you wanna have a bitch fight then we will in PMS

omfg, just stop ffs, marc's gonna be gettin pissed off, so is oric, and hutch, you eventually will. FFS, STOP IT for fuck sake...

Oric overreacted a bit and Hutch shouldn't have kicked him so readily.....don't turn this into a bitchfest

hutch is turnin it inot a bitchfest.

(sorry oric for this but i have to say it)

fine, fuck it, im sittin outta this one

Silent, shut up, get some fucking english lessons before you talk in here again, talking is for those who can actually do so properly. The sight of your words makes my eyes bleed and wills me to leave this shithole of a country you call "Great Britain", what a fucking great education system, sorry but I'm an elitist little fuck. This wouldn't be a bitchfest with out Oric's initial essay. Takes 2 to argue.

You wanted a bitchfest didn't you Oric, so I'll just give you what you want oh great powerful man that you are... I worship you and I am so jealous of everything you have, I just want to be you.

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Originally Posted by Hutch

Silent, shut up, get some fucking english lessons before you talk in here again, talking is for those who can actually do so properly. The sight of your words makes my eyes bleed and wills me to leave this shithole of a country you call "Great Britain", what a fucking great education system, sorry but I'm an elitist little fuck. This wouldn't be a bitchfest with out Oric's initial essay. Takes 2 to argue.

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ok my silence didnt last long

HUTCH FFS, Take this "great arguement" and shove it. Can someone lock this bloody thread! Stop being so dam self centered ffs. The rest i will keep back for this time. and i will try and keep out of it now.

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Originally Posted by Hutch

Silent, shut up, get some fucking english lessons before you talk in here again, talking is for those who can actually do so properly. The sight of your words makes my eyes bleed and wills me to leave this shithole of a country you call "Great Britain", what a fucking great education system, sorry but I'm an elitist little fuck. This wouldn't be a bitchfest with out Oric's initial essay. Takes 2 to argue.

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Hutch you should not of said that, alrite people know not to fucking piss me off and this has gone over the top i will have oric trying to calm me down and also daemon doin the same thing.

alrite i have english lessons and also i sometimes have problems with typing and shit.

so FUCK OFF AND DIE.

staying out of this...

no bump, lock this topic chalex pls

Guys, if you don't stop the pointless bitching at each other right now, I will just lock the thread. Oricalcos wouldn't be amused by that.

In regards to the "offence" at hand, I am too tired to make a final decision on what I am going to do about it now, as was the situation earlier on TS Oricalcos. I will reply ASAP tomorrow.

Would also be good to have some input on this from others such as Bloo...

chalex, what input is needed to lock a thread, you read this and leave it open? hmm

Oricalcos wanted a discussion on the matter, not a flame war. If people start to debate properly, then I will leave the thread open.

Thats the thing, nobody has really started a debate except oric here, myself included which i will openly admit to

I am getting these points cleared up first, then I am saying nothing else.

1. Everyone - If you have only got bitching to say and no input to the discussion, take it elsewhere.
2. Hutch - I do not want to start a bitchfest - Read the messege I sent to Chalex.
3. Hutch (again) - I understand now that VoX and Chaz were muting you, but as an admin, you could have unmuted yourself and avoided this eintire fiasco. And as much as I may act it, I don't actually want everyone to fall lockstep behind me and worship me as some form of religious figure.
4. Chalex - I understand that you are tired, but I would have appriciated a bit more input and action from you this evening, such as a disscussion into what you were considering as possible options in the broad scheme of things.
5. Daemon - Someone trying to keep order in chaos - /salute

Now, can this thread please not contain another single bitch, so I can log off my laptop and go to sleep now?

EDIT - Is it possible for some of the flames to be cleaned up Chalex?

I think that the issue is too minor to worry about and has been blown out of proportion by both sides, yes I shouldnt have kicked 3 people, BUT, VoX shouldnt have muted me for no apparent reason. No punishment necessary.

Dibs on the next "Lets blame someone for doing something wrong and hyping it up" thread!

i understand oric, but if hutch didn't post that reply (tope of this page) i would not have fliped at him.

sorry if u think this is anouther bitch (i hope you don't)

OK, last thing:

Can every person involved in the topic get at least a say in this topic before a decision is made, since at the moment it's only Hutch's word and my speech. So we need Chaz, VoX, Bloo (as a 'neutral' opinion) and a few other members with UNBIASED opinions.

EDIT: To calm everyone down, I provide this picture of a kitten and some flowers:
http://www.kentmarshall.com/photos/Kitten_and_Roses.jpg

Not gonna get involved, don't know what's happened.

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Originally Posted by Oricalcos

EDIT: To calm everyone down, I provide this picture of a kitten and some flowers:
http://www.kentmarshall.com/photos/Kitten_and_Roses.jpg

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My blood pressure just dropped to a dangerously low level :p

I want to stay clear of this one so Im just going to post useless comments and even more useless pictures.


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...g/flamewar.jpg

For this situation... i'm on Hutchypoo's side. Oric is just doing this because he doesn't like Hutch and making it a bigger incident than it really is.

Far as I can see, Oric, VoX and Chazlene were playing CSS since someone probably said "Lets play CSS". Ya'know, for fun and all. Hutch came on CSS because he wanted to blow off some steam.
Hutch said "Oric can't win he's pinned" which to me, doesn't sound like much... then he gets muted and there is some "Mwah mwah mwah" from VoX and Chazlene (those guys shouldn't of done that either, so at this point Hutch right now has doesn't anything wrong.)
Huch gets angry, he's blowing off steam afterall so it's all pent up and kicks everyone and then leaves. He shouldn't of done that, but all of us do things we regret when we're angry.
Oric catches wind of all of this and makes a huge argument out of it because he hates Hutch - look it's this thread!
Oric attempts to be all grownup as he always does, but is also whinging to Chalex like a child does to his mother when they don't get their favourite toy. He does that mock "I'm not angry look at me!" but actually is, Hutch isn't that subtle and just is angry and just shouts. Oric doesn't want a debate, he wants to humiliate Hutch like always and thats about it.

So here is my response: This is a nothing incident and if anything VoX and Chazlene should be punished for tempting Oric with another clip of ammo to shoot at Hutch, but thats just my own brand of justice. If Hutch gets punished for this, just count me out of the whole community altogether, Oric is just once again doing his stupid routine of shouting and whinging until it's all a big mess and we rebrand ourselves as some other clan/community/thing. Because really, this kind of thing has been happening since the days of Morph and his TS (but atleast he was a bastard and shitted on both of them at the same time). This isn't meant to be a flame, but it's a complete honest truth from my perspective, with no flowers or cuddles to soften it. Deal with it.

This has nothing to do with the fact that I dislike Hutch and his personality. To be honest, if it had been VoX or Daemon in this situation (this and the previous event with the TeamSpeak spamming for anyone who lives under a rock), then I would have acted in the same manner.

I have already tried to pull the discussion away from personal jibes at people for the last two pages, and the last thing I wish to do is turn this thread into the ultimate bitch thread, get it locked, and have the issue disappear.

As stated before, Hutch was not on TS at this time, and came onto CSS seemingly randomly before the event. He did not come onto TS afterwards either.

I also don't appreciate being compared to a 5 year old.

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Originally Posted by Bloo

He shouldn't of done that, but all of us do things we regret when we're angry.

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Yes, but we don't all just bring out our anger on others who have done nothing to them. Plus the fact, as an admin, he could have easily unmuted himself if it was unjustified (we shall wait for what VoX and Chaz say)

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by Bloo

Oric catches wind of all of this and makes a huge argument out of it because he hates Hutch - look it's this thread!
Oric attempts to be all grownup as he always does, but is also whinging to Chalex like a child does to his mother when they don't get their favourite toy. He does that mock "I'm not angry look at me!" but actually is, Hutch isn't that subtle and just is angry and just shouts. Oric doesn't want a debate, he wants to humiliate Hutch like always and thats about it.

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Originally Posted by Bloo

This isn't meant to be a flame

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Contradiction?

In this case I must say that I do agree with most of what Bloo is saying. Hutch wasn't right in kicking everyone from the server, but it is hardly the worst thing that he has ever done and it's not like you couldn't just rejoin and carry on playing.

We all act badly at times, and I can hardly believe that Hutch did this thinking that it would cause this much disruption. He was after all provoked by Chazlene/Vox by being muted after only saying that Oric couldn't win or something, which was probably just a bit of fun. He then got pissed of that everyone was ignoring him AGAIN, over-reacted and kicked everyone. This isn't an issue with just how Hutch reacted, everyone on that server needs to think of the consequences of their actions a bit more carefully in the future.

It is a well known fact that Hutch and Oric, despite their agreement to never argue again (lol), are always going to disagree with each other. I don't think that removing his admin or banning him is going to fix any of these problems, and I do hope that Hutch realises that he did act badly.

I know Oric that you are going to be hopping mad that I haven't done exactly what you wanted, and I don't think that writing an essay replying to this is going to help anyone.

What would be nice is an apology from Hutch, acknowledging that he did make a mistake.

And i'm locking this thread, to prevent anyone whining about how it was dealt with.